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someone1980
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Post subject: Race Gun - 38 super Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:23 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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Glock + iPod sent me the following link (I don't know why he didn't post it)
http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_art ... e483560d9e
It talks about Vera Koo who is a very good competitive shooter. They mention that she shoots a 38 super. So I did a little digging and it sounds like a hopped up 9mm that makes major.
So that got me to thinking about my own IDPA experience. I shoot a 5" 9mm XD. The muzzle flip isn't too bad, and as I have exercised my shooting muscles it has lessened a good deal. But I see these people shooting IPSC race guns and it doesn't look like there is any muzzle flip.
So I guess I am wondering is how much of that control is the cartriage, reloaded ammo, compensator, full metal pistol, and muscle. Can a 21 year old female walk out for her first range trip and shoot a pistol that makes a bigger bang but doesn't increase the recoil?
I also have this facination with a red dot on a pistol... but would like to give it a shot before I start spending the big bucks.
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doctor_strangelove
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:02 am |
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:54 pm Posts: 70 Location: Plymouth
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I looked at those Doktor red dot sights, as they're compact and very sturdy, apparently, but the price (~350-400$) on those things...
"The pistols weigh approximately 5 lbs. when loaded with bullets."
Maybe the weight might contribute to the ease of control, compared to your very lithe XD9...
Last edited by doctor_strangelove on Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cdl
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:14 am |
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Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:49 am Posts: 42
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Major at 175,000 in .45 was a light load. In 9mm it was explosive. At 165000 it’s even lighter in a .45 or 38 super. A comp and all that weight upfront virtually eliminates muzzle flip. All things being equal though, the faster 38 super got to the target first and that’s how you win.
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Selurcspi
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Post subject: Re: Race Gun - 38 super Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:42 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
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someone1980 wrote: Glock + iPod sent me the following link (I don't know why he didn't post it) http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_art ... e483560d9eIt talks about Vera Koo who is a very good competitive shooter. They mention that she shoots a 38 super. So I did a little digging and it sounds like a hopped up 9mm that makes major. So that got me to thinking about my own IDPA experience. I shoot a 5" 9mm XD. The muzzle flip isn't too bad, and as I have exercised my shooting muscles it has lessened a good deal. But I see these people shooting IPSC race guns and it doesn't look like there is any muzzle flip. So I guess I am wondering is how much of that control is the cartriage, reloaded ammo, compensator, full metal pistol, and muscle. Can a 21 year old female walk out for her first range trip and shoot a pistol that makes a bigger bang but doesn't increase the recoil? I also have this facination with a red dot on a pistol... but would like to give it a shot before I start spending the big bucks.
someone1980,
PM me and we can make arrangements to shoot, I'm a long time ipsc shooter and my race gun is similar to Vera's, you can check it out with 175pf loads and you'll see how light the recoil feels. I've seen 10 year olds competing with 38sup and they do just fine.
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Race Gun - 38 super Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:39 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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someone1980 wrote: a 38 super. So I did a little digging and it sounds like a hopped up 9mm that makes major.
That's what it is and what it's used for. I'm a little jaundiced about which part of "Practical" it fulfills.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mo_the_mouse
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Post subject: Re: Race Gun - 38 super Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:01 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:48 am Posts: 517 Location: Coon Rapids
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Selurcspi wrote: someone1980 wrote: Glock + iPod sent me the following link (I don't know why he didn't post it) http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_art ... e483560d9eIt talks about Vera Koo who is a very good competitive shooter. They mention that she shoots a 38 super. So I did a little digging and it sounds like a hopped up 9mm that makes major. So that got me to thinking about my own IDPA experience. I shoot a 5" 9mm XD. The muzzle flip isn't too bad, and as I have exercised my shooting muscles it has lessened a good deal. But I see these people shooting IPSC race guns and it doesn't look like there is any muzzle flip. So I guess I am wondering is how much of that control is the cartriage, reloaded ammo, compensator, full metal pistol, and muscle. Can a 21 year old female walk out for her first range trip and shoot a pistol that makes a bigger bang but doesn't increase the recoil? I also have this facination with a red dot on a pistol... but would like to give it a shot before I start spending the big bucks. someone1980, PM me and we can make arrangements to shoot, I'm a long time ipsc shooter and my race gun is similar to Vera's, you can check it out with 175pf loads and you'll see how light the recoil feels. I've seen 10 year olds competing with 38sup and they do just fine.
I have shot this 38sup. Take him up on it. FUN!!!
_________________ MADFI Certified Instructor
NRA Certified Instructor
That is all....
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Selurcspi
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Post subject: Re: Race Gun - 38 super Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:10 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
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mo_the_mouse wrote: Selurcspi wrote: someone1980 wrote: Glock + iPod sent me the following link (I don't know why he didn't post it) http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_art ... e483560d9eIt talks about Vera Koo who is a very good competitive shooter. They mention that she shoots a 38 super. So I did a little digging and it sounds like a hopped up 9mm that makes major. So that got me to thinking about my own IDPA experience. I shoot a 5" 9mm XD. The muzzle flip isn't too bad, and as I have exercised my shooting muscles it has lessened a good deal. But I see these people shooting IPSC race guns and it doesn't look like there is any muzzle flip. So I guess I am wondering is how much of that control is the cartriage, reloaded ammo, compensator, full metal pistol, and muscle. Can a 21 year old female walk out for her first range trip and shoot a pistol that makes a bigger bang but doesn't increase the recoil? I also have this facination with a red dot on a pistol... but would like to give it a shot before I start spending the big bucks. someone1980, PM me and we can make arrangements to shoot, I'm a long time ipsc shooter and my race gun is similar to Vera's, you can check it out with 175pf loads and you'll see how light the recoil feels. I've seen 10 year olds competing with 38sup and they do just fine. I have shot this 38sup. Take him up on it. FUN!!!
Thanks for the vote of confidence Mo
_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: Race Gun Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:03 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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I also have a 38 super race gun. Mine was bulit by Brazo out of texas and is dream to shoot. It is not a practical gun to carry as most people would invision carry. But, it does what is was built for. The recoil, or lack of it, is really a combination of all the factors you mentioned. Also influenced by bullet and powder selection.
I'm in the west burbs PM me and we can meet at St. Cloud or Bill's and you can send a few down range. One word of caution at Bill's it is very very loud. I went to the range at elk river a few weeks ago for their thursday night league and they stopped me two rounds into a course to ask what it was. They were cool and let me finish but the guy next to me said he could feel the concusion of the round.
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someone1980
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:17 pm |
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm Posts: 2305
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Interesting. So you don't get the recoil in the hands, but do get a blast off of the comp. You specifically mentioned Bill's which is indoor, do you get reflection of the concusson off of the ceiling? Is outdoor nicer for something like that?
Hmm. You guys are starting to make me think and ask questions. I am getting excited.
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pezhead
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:03 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:27 pm Posts: 359 Location: Shakopee
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I can see that the concussion from the muzzle brake may cause problems indoors. At Bill's fall show they had a .50 BMG & you could feel it through the floor. I did shoot off one round & it didn't kick that much but the shock wave is something else.
It would be nice to have one though along with everything else on my wish list.
Sounds like a nice gun.
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: Race Gun Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:20 am |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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Actually, outdoors is typically much more comfortable to shoot these type of guns, however with our current temp adn the short term future looking like it is going to get worse. we're forced to go indoors to get some trigger time.
You get the pressure from the comp at the end of the barrel redircting the blast to the sides and down. The person next to you feels the pressure from the side blast.
They are an engineering marvel to watch run and a darn good looking pistol. I'll be at Bill's on Dec 31 in the morning if you want to stop by.
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Seismic Sam
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Post subject: Okay Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:30 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:48 pm Posts: 479 Location: Afton
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I have been trying to find a shooter for some time who will actually fess up and tell me how fast they load their 38 Super rounds. I'm assuming that you're using 9 x 23 brass, and I'm curious just how FAST you can push a 9mm bullet. You don't have to tell me what the load specs are, but if you can tell me how heavy the bullet is and how fast it's going, I would appreciate it.
P.S. The top loads in one of my many handloading manuals lists the top end of 38 Super as 1550 with light bullets.
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: Super 38 Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:32 am |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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Actually I use 38super +p brass. I prefer the remington nickel becuase it is easier to pick out from the 9mm stuff.
I use a 125gr .356 bullet and am pushing it at 1350fps, using IMR 4765. I will warn you this is not something that should be done in a gun not specifically made for it, the load is HOT and will cause issues with a 'stock' 38 super gun. These loads need to be this way to make the comp work and make Major power factor.
As always start with a load you know is safe and work your way up to what you need. If you see pressure signs, STOP IMMED, and back the load off.
Making major with 9mm is a whole different game due to the casing size and powder/bullet options.
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Selurcspi
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:52 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:02 pm Posts: 1569 Location: The Mild, Mild, West, Burbs
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_________________ NRA Certified Instructor MADFI Certified Instructor MN DNR Certified Instructor UT BCI Certified Conceal/Carry Instructor
"If you expect the police to always be able to protect you, why are the ones who show up at crimes called 'detectives' instead of 'defenders'? Detectives try to find a criminal after they've committed a crime."
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Pinnacle
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:43 pm |
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Designated waste of protoplasm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:41 pm Posts: 1807 Location: Western Burbs of MPLS
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Wow imagine that load in an unsupported chamber - can you say BLOW OUT. man that is FAST for a pistol...
it is interesting that out of a G17 the Winchester RA9TA goes 1350fps FACTORY - now that is fast with a 127gr bullet - I am wondering if that makes Major as I do not know that much about IPSC and the power factor limits and seem to be unmotivated to look it up.
That would make an itneresting option if it were to make Major.....
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