Perusing the posts here and elsewhere I've seen one or two making some less-than-wise and potentially disastrous speculations about police dogs, one somewhat recent. Name omitted and content paraphrased for grace, it's something along these lines:

As concerns people and trained dogs, that reasoning is tantamount to "I'm a prize fighter among other hyenas, so I can probably handle an elephant or two."

This is a belief commonly held by a lot of otherwise very smart people, not just assholes. It's a dangerous fallacy. And it's guaranteed to be one hundred percent injurious, and quite possibly fatal, and nobody here deserves that. It's a joke among handlers how many a homie* thinks he's an unbelievably scary badass and a force to be reckoned with on the streets and it's highly unlikely that any dog could ever best his epic coolness...until the trainer let's the thing out of the car. And every time, about five seconds later, Mr. Super Homie Extraordinaire is on his ass, covered in crimson thinking, "holy SHIT! They're using bears now..."


No matter how many times you bested the family dogs, the deck is stacked against you; trained dogs are different animals. Taking on a pet means nothing. They expect to be beaten and plan on submission, because that's their social role as they understand it. They're pulling punches because it's just a game.


If you've quarreled with a trained dog even once before, it's already more than most. But you're still screwed, because he's taken you down a thousand times in training and knows all your tricks. He knows every move you might make including curve balls like a weapon. A knife; a bat; a crowbar; even a surprise pistol: he's seen it all before. As for that pocket can of pepper spray: short of a direct shot to both eyes and in the mouth, it's going to hurt you more than him**. He'll trouper through it like rain water. He'll piss and shit everywhere and whine to high heaven at some point, but not before taking you down like business as usual, and getting plenty of pepper in all your wounds to boot. Oouch.


After a couple years on the job they get even nastier, especially the herding types. Shepherds know inherently how to control and trip up other animals*** with bites around the ankles and also have a propensity for teaching themselves new tricks. After a number of trials in the field they learn to tackle people around the knees like a lineman, breaking shins like nobody's business. And if they get enough speed on you, they can jump and throw their momentum into the waist and torso. It's TIMBER, then the carnage begins.


Trained dogs subdue primarily through pain, and progressively with abject tissue damage thereafter until they achieve control. To this end they use the same mechanics traditionally favored by alligators. That rigorous back-and-forth heading wringing that family dogs use to wrench items in a game of tug is employed by police dogs to gruesome effect. And the best part is that even if you're smart enough to settle down, he'll cease shaking and tugging, but he'll maintain his bite until either his partner calls him off or his muscles fail. It's conceivable that an experienced trainer might be able to read a different dog well enough to dodge its leap and strike at its back, but even then it's anybody's guess.

In a one-on-one match-up between a person and a trained dog the only certain equalizer is a bullet. However, if one were to find himself recalling this knowledge in the face of a charging K-9, he obviously aware that it is a police-trained animal. Thus, applying this knowledge would be remarkably stupid. Kill a trainer's dog and it's open season on you and he has an unlimited license. Minus a gun, another dog stands a better chance than a person.


If things have deteriorated to the point that they're letting the dog out, you've got serious problems, and escape is a pretty weak wager. Frankly, the best course of action is to lie prostrate ASAP before he closes the distance between you. If he bites you anyway-- and he will if his trainer's around the corner or outside the building or otherwise out of sight--just bite your lip and try not to move. Face down too; DO NOT make eye contact with a control dog. If you're lucky, his partner might stay him before he closes the gap, if he decides there are enough guns trained on you.

Planning to fight it out with a trained dog is an extremely ill-advised decision, more so with the confidence of play-fighting a pet.

Anyone crazy enough to take on a group of dogs--this opportunity is hard to imagine--will almost certainly come out of it a changed man, as in a corpse handcuffed to a gurney.

well shit
proofing this I realize how fucking long it is...and that it needs notes. thus concludes my first and last Sunday night rant
*I'm not accusing anyone reading this of associating with, or being a homie(s).
**For anyone who wants to know bear repellent products commonly sold at a lot of sporting goods stores ARE EFFECTIVE on just about anything four-legged and furry. Bear in mind however that any statutes addressing the use of chemical irritants against a peace officer apply just the same to canines. Also it's singularly cruel to do this to a police dog. They don't understand it and it's terrifying for them.
***Ever been to a backyard or house party in a really big room where someone owned a Collie? Ever realized kind of suddenly a bunching together of a lot of people, making oddly poor use of open yard space? Look for the host's dog brushing slyly against peoples' legs when they're busy talking to nudge them little-by-little. The tighter the group becomes, the easier it gets. They'll patiently and nimbly herd the crowd. Disorder and lack of oversight just drives them nuts.

fun read.

Good info

Yep, good read.

When I lived in Augsburg Germany, I had a retired Berlin police dog (German Shepherd). He was pretty tough and pretty much impossible to 'take down' when we wrestled. A few times he got a grip on me and wouldn't let go until the wife called him off. Never broke the skin though.

Damn good dog though. Very protective of my family.

Good post.

I'll add - had the opportunity to be a target for a police dog exercise once. It was during my field ed for my Criminal Justice degree. Myself and three others were given 15 or so minutes to hide in a Fleet Farm-like store . . . acting as burglars whose lookout gave a good warning. Even ontop of the tires way up in the racks with all those other strong odors in that department, I was the last "burglar" found but I was found.

The farm store owners had made an agreement with three departments to do an exercise while they were closed. Very cool stuff.

Enjoyed the read - and FWIW, share a vehicle and home with such a creature; although not a herder and can't be lifted into an attic anymore. He was a successful experiment, but still too large for effective LE work. As I've commented on here previously, if he had a mind to (and I had a mind to let him), he could leave me very little to shoot if a BG breached our space. I'd wager Lesnar would give him a tussle, but would ultimately need a boatload of stitches.

Well now you did it - that is the first thing I've read on line that nearly caused me a coffee-spewed-onto-the-keyboard moment. Damn, that is funny.

Ha. Yep.

I've had the privilege (structured misfortune?) of throwing my overweight around with a Bernese Mountain/Newfoundland mix. I still remember distinctly feeling that my life was every bit at his discretion, and that he considered my walking away to speak volumes about what a gracious dog he is. He was pretty cute though, in that monster-with-a-heart-of-gold kind of way.



And yeah, not too quick on his feet but a nightmare nonetheless.

Well thank you. I do try

I know the military used to train some special forces how to kill a single attack dog with just hands. I think SEALS used to have to actually kill a dog to complete training; at least, a guy I know did that in the late 70's.

You have to be standing, proactive, and immediately and confidently attack the dog. Don't wait for him to start. Grab the lower jaw, lift the dog and break the neck. The important thing is don't go down yourself and always be lifting the dog up, so he can't get set. You out weigh him, and if you've got the lower jaw he can't shake. Your hand goes in the mouth, over the teeth and you fingers and thumb wrap the bottom of the jaw. Use both hands.

If you do go down, you can break a front leg by a sideways bend.

I suppose they didn't use the best dogs for this, but he said killing a German Shepherd was pretty easy, and no one in his group had any trouble with the excercise. But of course they were all big and bad guys, wearing armor and had instructors to save them.

Alright. wow.
But that's fair. Nobody I know has any delusions about how they might measure against a Navy SEAL. What's described above is ridiculous and I've never heard of that. But my father's always hung out with his reliquary of SF guys from the war and yeah, their physicality is also ridiculous, so I can believe it. I'm sure it's not impossible and if you say so I've no reason to doubt it. I would love to see something like that. I'm not sure I'd be man enough to try that with a dog.

But for the average Joe, I'm pretty sure it is for all intents and purposes impossible, unwise at the very least.

It's not a secret that I've tooled around with dogs, but this might be (I do not endorse attempting): the best way as I know to hand-fight a trained dog--and as I've seen this it's still 50/50--is to look him in the eye, stand much in a shooting stance, but with your weak side (left, for me) to the dog, and hold your left hand in front of you, as though holding a weapon. Exaggerate it. I'm talking about mime work here.

The objective in this case is not unlike that of a matador with a bull. You're baiting him. If you can make the case that you're prepared to strike, he'll jump for your would-be weapon arm. You'll plan on this, and rotate your body toward as he lunges, removing your weak arm from his attack path and moving to strike his torso/spine with your strong side. That's almost a fantasy.

A more likely option is to try for a hold on him as he moves past you and then strangle him. And he should be dead before you let go. If he wakes up he'll just pick up where he left off as though nothing happened and then you are pretty much dead to rights. You can't mindfuck a German Shepherd twice.

Still, I've never seen this done the whole way through. So it's ultimately theoretical. I've never heard of anyone killing something in training.

Yeah, after which point, refer back to:



What I don't undertand, and this certainly may have been previously discussed at length, is why, if the above were to happen, it would be considered/treated as assault on a peace officer, but when the JBTs indiscriminately and frequently shoot fido after the wrong house no-knock, its just a replaceable piece of property...

They're protecting their investment. I think it's about $30,000 to purchase, train (dog & handler), and outfit a K9 pair. Give or take.

Money talks I guess. Who knew?

I see. So if it was Stump, the Westminster champ, for example, then one could claim murder.

Nope, and they won't even pay to replace you doors after they kick them in on a phony tip.

Different rules.. . . So long as officer friendly gets his tactical rocks off, your dog is as dispensable as your deadbolt.

While I understand wanting to discourage the average thug from taking anti-canine measures (poison laced caltrops for example) the law does little to help the wrong house no-knock victim that gets the K-9 released into their abode and reacts in self defense.

Most of the cops in my neck of the woods know my big boy (200-pound class that can look over a 6-foot fence)... nevertheless, any 911 call from my residence will include the fact that my canine has the BG engaged and to feel free to shoot at anything but the dog. Heck, even shoot at me for that matter (I return fire); just don't take out my pup.