Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/

Glock FMJ vs Lead (split from Caliber newbie)
http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3343		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  DeanC [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
And another thing...

You should ONLY shoot jacketed bullets in that Glock. Do not shoot plain, unjacketed lead bullets.

I'm sure you'd actually have to look pretty hard to find it, most places only sell jacketed 9mm. But just in case you run into some, don't buy it.

Naked lead bullets can gum up the polygonal rifling in a Glock and make it go kaboom.
Author:  Old Dude [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:53 am ]
Post subject: 
You beat me to it with the Bad and Cheap response. I translated it as "Awful and Cheap" but you get the point in any case.

I haven't used that much of it, but haven't encountered problems with it so far. Of course, I may just be living on borrowed luck.
Author:  Selurcspi [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
DeanC wrote:
And another thing...

You should ONLY shoot jacketed bullets in that Glock. Do not shoot plain, unjacketed lead bullets.

I'm sure you'd actually have to look pretty hard to find it, most places only sell jacketed 9mm. But just in case you run into some, don't buy it.

Naked lead bullets can gum up the polygonal rifling in a Glock and make it go kaboom.


Dean,

I have one word for your plain lead theory.....Balderdash.....

Poly rifling has no lands or grooves to fill with lead, unlike conventional rifling. I have shot over 30,000 rounds of lead through a Styer GB, though, it’s a pig of a job to clean the outside of the barrel and the shroud, also I have in excess of 150,000 rounds through my P7 more that half of which have been lead. Both guns have poly rifled barrels and both produce less lead residue than standard rifling when pulled through with a Lewis Lead Remover.
Glocks may have some leading problems I don’t know about, but the Austrian IPSC shooters seem to put plenty of lead through them without incident. I shot on the European circuit for 20 years and never saw a single glock blow up, even when shooting major 9.
Author:  DeanC [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Glock and the Glockmeister say not to do it, so I won't. http://glockmeister.com/faq.shtml

Although H&K and Kahr give no such warning.

It's probably advice for the basic newb who doesn't clean his gun anyhow.
Author:  DeanC [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow - interesting info at the sometimes unreliable wikipedia on polygonal rifling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling

Has anybody got a Glock manual laying around that they can look and see if it really says not to use lead bullets?

Should change this to say:
Quote:
Glockmeister says Glock says not to do it...


(Maybe somebody could split this off into a new thread a couple posts back?)
Author:  ttousi [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
(Maybe somebody could split this off into a new thread a couple posts back?)


ok
Author:  cobb [ Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Selurcspi wrote:
Poly rifling has no lands or grooves to fill with lead, unlike conventional rifling. I have shot over 30,000 rounds of lead through a Styer GB, though, it’s a pig of a job to clean the outside of the barrel and the shroud, also I have in excess of 150,000 rounds through my P7 more that half of which have been lead. Both guns have poly rifled barrels and both produce less lead residue than standard rifling when pulled through with a Lewis Lead Remover.


This has always puzzled me. At a glance, I would assume that conventional rifling would cause more of a leading problem than the polygonal rifling. I still can't understand this, but have to assume it is much deeper than what is said on the surface.

So I am in the doubting camp as far as the lead problem in a polygonal barrel.
Author:  squib_joe [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Polygonal rifling forms a tighter seal, which gives us that nice velocity and accuracy but also a tendency to form unsafe pressures if the bullet meets any resistance. The fouling that is safe in a conventionally rifled barrel if not at all safe in a polygonal barrel.

Standard rifling has a place (between the lands) for displaced lead fouling to go between cleanings. Polygonal rifling does not. Instead of being pushed into a groove, the lead sheets out evenly in a polygonal barrel, gradually leading up and constricting barrel diameter. This normally only happens with soft cast lead but it can also happen with hard lead alloys and even copper if you shoot many hundreds of rounds between cleanings.
Author:  Red XIII [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I'll look it up tomorrow (actually later today now), I just got a Glock19c a couple months ago.

Red
Author:  Selurcspi [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
squib_joe wrote:
Polygonal rifling forms a tighter seal, which gives us that nice velocity and accuracy but also a tendency to form unsafe pressures if the bullet meets any resistance. The fouling that is safe in a conventionally rifled barrel if not at all safe in a polygonal barrel.

Standard rifling has a place (between the lands) for displaced lead fouling to go between cleanings. Polygonal rifling does not. Instead of being pushed into a groove, the lead sheets out evenly in a polygonal barrel, gradually leading up and constricting barrel diameter. This normally only happens with soft cast lead but it can also happen with hard lead alloys and even copper if you shoot many hundreds of rounds between cleanings.


Once more my experience says Balderdash. As I said above even after many thousands of rounds of lead between my poly barrels exhibited much less lead fouling when pulled through with a Lewis. Someone is pulling wool over eyes for some unknown purpose, perhaps, to stay out of court.

I have much experience on this subject, but as always this can be ignored, does anyone have any science on this subject, perhaps information from a proof house or some other indepenent source?
Author:  hammAR [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Below is from G. McMillan on his view of poly barrels and the industry:

Subject: Re: polygonal rifling
From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Date: Apr 23 1997
Newsgroups: rec.guns

Instead of the rifling being square and hanging down in the bore so that
it can engrave a square notch in the bullet it has flats where the
rifling would be. The bullet is not upset much. Instead of having 6 or
8 sharp knotches it will have small flats that are very unnoticeable.
This makes the bullet fly better in the wind because there is no sharp
edges to bite into a cross wind. The bullet jacket is not deformed as
much so the chances of loose cores are much less. Since there is no
sharp corners to burn off the barrel life is much longer and is
dependent on heat checking alone to end its life. That is one major
reason most barrel makers are not interested in them. It would decrease
their business by half. They are more difficult to make than regular
rifled barrels for a couple of reasons one being they are difficult to
lap and give a cut barrel maker more problems due to tooling.

Gale McMillan
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Selurcspi wrote:
Once more my experience says Balderdash. As I said above even after many thousands of rounds of lead between my poly barrels exhibited much less lead fouling when pulled through with a Lewis. Someone is pulling wool over eyes for some unknown purpose, perhaps, to stay out of court.

I have much experience on this subject, but as always this can be ignored, does anyone have any science on this subject, perhaps information from a proof house or some other indepenent source?


There are some other people on the web who say this as well; that they actually get less leading in the Glocks than other guns. I think I'm starting to be a believer.

At any rate, all you have to do is take a good look at your barrel after every shooting session when you clean it and see if it's starting to lead which you should be doing anyhow.
Author:  Selurcspi [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:18 am ]
Post subject: 
DeanC wrote:
Selurcspi wrote:
Once more my experience says Balderdash. As I said above even after many thousands of rounds of lead between my poly barrels exhibited much less lead fouling when pulled through with a Lewis. Someone is pulling wool over eyes for some unknown purpose, perhaps, to stay out of court.

I have much experience on this subject, but as always this can be ignored, does anyone have any science on this subject, perhaps information from a proof house or some other indepenent source?


There are some other people on the web who say this as well; that they actually get less leading in the Glocks than other guns. I think I'm starting to be a believer.

At any rate, all you have to do is take a good look at your barrel after every shooting session when you clean it and see if it's starting to lead which you should be doing anyhow.


Dean,

Invest in a Lewis Kit and test the theory... :wink: :wink:
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Selurcspi wrote:
Invest in a Lewis Kit and test the theory...

Actually I need one. My 45 acp handloads were a little hot and I've started leading the barrel on my XD in less than 300 rounds.

In order to fully test the theory, I'll also need to buy a Glock. Dogone it! I hate it when I have to buy a new gun just to prove a point! 8)
Author:  Pinnacle [ Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
As you all may know - I load a lot of 9mm

I do not load lead - and I do not know why - but I can tell you that with the spfter plated bullets I have run into reliability issues with the Glock - I suspect that it is because the bullets dont create enough resistance to build proper pressures to operate the gun reliably.

This is my suspicion - I have no proof other than experience - I upped the powder charges with not a whole lot of difference.

I think that I can say that my glocks do not like plated bullets as well as 124gr FMJ or a good JHP...

I suspect that Lead would be safe as long as you are careful and watch out - and if something does not feel right - it likely is not right and you should investigate.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 6 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/