chunkstyle wrote:
Of course, they can always make something else up to detain you for.
It's called disorderly conduct...
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| Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14255 |
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| Author: | Hunter07 [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-carry-lawsuit Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit September 29, 8:37 PMDC Gun Rights ExaminerMike Stollenwerk As reported in the Alamogordo Daily News today, the Alamogordo, NM Police have paid $21,000 to settle with Matthew A. St. John whom police detained for open carrying a holstered handgun at a movie theater. This settlement follows a host of settlements by police departments around the country with plaintiffs who were detained by police for openly carrying a holstered handgun, including Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Virginia (see another settlement here), and Georgia. More cases are still pending in Ohio, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. On September 8, 2009, Federal District Judge Bruce D. Black, issued an order previously examined here, that concluded as a matter of law that Alamogordo police officiers violated Matthew St. John's constitutional rights under the Fourth Amendment because they seized and disarmed him even though there was not "any reason to believe that a crime was afoot." Judge Black's opinion is consistent with numerous high state and federal appellate court rulings, including the United States Supreme Court, holding that there is no firearms exception to the Fourth Amendment. Judge Black has designated his September 8, 2009 opinion and order to be "published" in the official reporter for the United States Federal District Court for New Mexico. While unpublished opinions can be cited in the future by litigants and other courts, a "published" opinion is viewed as having more weight as a source of law than "unpublished" opinions. The case can now be cited as St. John v. McColley, et al., --- F.Supp.2d ----, 2009 WL 2949302 (D.N.M. 2009). Alamogordo Department of Public Safety Director Sam Trujillo (and president of the New Mexico Association of Chiefs of Police) told the Examiner.com today that his Department will be "examining that case with in-house counsel" with an eye toward refining police procedures and training to ensure that police officer contacts with open carriers do not offend the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Mr. Trujillo also said his Department will attempt to identify what circumstances, if any, under the law of trespass in New Mexico, police officers may act on behalf of private property owners to ask people carrying guns to leave private property, or if the private owner or his agent must provide this notice. The open carry of holstered handguns is legal in 42 states, and requires no license in New Mexico and twenty-five other states. |
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| Author: | chunkstyle [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
Wow! There still is a 4th Amendment? |
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| Author: | Selurcspi [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
This should read: Alamogordo Tax Payers pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
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| Author: | DeanC [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
21 large? That ain't nuthin! |
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| Author: | kimberman [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
Police May Not Even Temporarily Detain a Person Simply Because He’s Openly Carrying a Handgun, if such open carrying in that place is generally not a crime. This is not directly applicable to Minnesota but it is a well reasoned. It should be applicable from the moment on once you display your carry permit. The New Mexico federal district court opinion is discussed at http://volokh.com/2009/10/01/police-may ... -a-handgun. The opinion is available at http://ia311029.us.archive.org/1/items/ ... 7.48.0.pdf. |
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| Author: | kecker [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
So assuming you haven't done anything, basically once you display your permit, and presumably they call in and verify it, you (and your firearm) is basically untouchable? Am I reading that correctly? |
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| Author: | chunkstyle [ Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
Of course, they can always make something else up to detain you for. |
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| Author: | Q_Continuum [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
kecker wrote: So assuming you haven't done anything, basically once you display your permit, and presumably they call in and verify it, you (and your firearm) is basically untouchable? Am I reading that correctly? Unless you're doing something that's not allowed, yes - they can verify your permit is valid, but so long as you're not violating any law (they may ask you to leave on behalf of the shopkeeper, and if you refuse - THEN you're trespassing, etc) there's nothing else they can do. (Without finding "some other reason" to take you into custody) |
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| Author: | singhcr [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
During traffic stops, with this new ruling (assuming it is applied to other states) can police seize your firearm at all? Or do they basically have the right to seize your firearm if they see or know about it, and then give it back to you once you show your permit? 4th Amendment rights extend to traffic stops but the bar for "reasonable cause" seems pretty low. |
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| Author: | farmerj [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alamogordo police pay $21,000 to settle open carry lawsuit |
chunkstyle wrote: Of course, they can always make something else up to detain you for. It's called disorderly conduct...
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