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Sniper Rifles
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Author:  JimC [ Thu May 28, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Sniper Rifles
Seen some very cool sniper rifles on tv shows. Was wondering.

Can I buy one if they're available? Are there special laws about these rifles?

One uses a 50 cal cartridge.
Author:  SultanOfBrunei [ Thu May 28, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject: 
The difference between a 'sniper' rifle and a hunting rifle isn't much.

There are no laws regarding 'sniper' rifles specifically.

.50 cal is legal (and expensive.)

ETA: (in minnesota, that I know of, IANAL.)
Author:  mrokern [ Thu May 28, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
SultanOfBrunei wrote:
.50 cal is legal (and expensive.)


Legal in Minnesota, at least...

Just don't buy a Barrett 82A1 and move to CA.

-Mark
Author:  kecker [ Thu May 28, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject: 
SultanOfBrunei wrote:
The difference between a 'sniper' rifle and a hunting rifle isn't much.


I'd be very amused watching someone try to define a "sniper" rifle without including a huge swath of hunting rifles.
Author:  JohnK87 [ Thu May 28, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
A typical sniper rifle is bolt action, free floated heavy barrel, and match (very light, i.e. 2 oz) trigger. Not much different from a hunting or varmint rifle. Interestingly, I thought most of them used .308's for SWAT snipers, but I ran into the Dakota County snipers at the range one day. They use .223 Remington 700 rifles, less danger of overpenetration and they normally aim for the neck, not the head.
Author:  Dee [ Thu May 28, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The difference between a 'sniper' rifle and a hunting rifle isn't much.


For example: The marines used a Remington 700 as their sniper rifle in Vietnam. While it wasn't the box stock Rem 700, one could take a box stock 700 and have it worked over by a gunsmith who knew what he was doing and you could end up with the exact same thing. Other things used by snipers would be optics with different capabilitites (like low light capabilitites) depending on the situation. There is absolutely no reason that a civilian couldn't duplicate a military sniper rifle. It might not be cheap but it can be done. Barrels, trigger groups, bedding jobs. etc. are all available if you want to spend the money. Keep in mind that there is more to sniping than just having a capable rifle. The rifle is part of the battle. The ammunition comes next. You would need match quality ammo or have to develop your own handload tailored for the gun. I believe that the marines used "Lake City Match" ammo in their 700's. Your optics would have to be of good quality too. Some guys will spend as much on the glass as they spent on the rifle.

That being said there is no reason that you can't get a (MOA) minute of angle performance with a standard commercial rifle and commercial ammo (with a little work). It depends on how much time you want to put into it. I have a Ruger M77 with an extra heavy barrel in .280 Remington that I worked some handloads up for. It would (I haven't shot it in years) give me less than moa groups. I've never shot it over 250 yards so I don't know how it will group at longer distances. It took me a long time to come up with the right combination. I was single then and had a lot of time on my hands. The key is consistency. You must use a good quality bullet (concentricity, weight, shape) in the right length for your rate of twist so it will be stabilized, make sure that each charge of powder is the same, make sure your overall length (of cartridge) is the same and that the bullet engages the rifling, etc. etc.

Of course, not everyone is going to be able to shoot like Carlos Hathcock but one would have to practice the right techniques (hold, breathing) There is a lot of science in sniping. Sniper rifles are not lasers and the bullets are subject to all the laws of physics. You have to know your bullet drop tables backwards and forwards, you have to be able to estimate range accurately, You have to be able to read the wind downrange and compensate for it. You have to understand heat shimmer and mirage and be able to shoot through it..... and on and on.

..but hey its a hobby, right?

*Ok.. Its been a few years since I've paid serious attention to this. I can't believe what the prices on a new hunting rifles are. Anything decent in Remmy 700, Winchester Mod 70 or Ruger M77 or Savage is closer to a grand or over! Even the short action ones, Wow!
Author:  kecker [ Thu May 28, 2009 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
JohnK87 wrote:
A typical sniper rifle is bolt action, free floated heavy barrel, and match (very light, i.e. 2 oz) trigger. Not much different from a hunting or varmint rifle. Interestingly, I thought most of them used .308's for SWAT snipers, but I ran into the Dakota County snipers at the range one day. They use .223 Remington 700 rifles, less danger of overpenetration and they normally aim for the neck, not the head.


.223? Check
Free floated heavy barrel?? Check
Light trigger? Check
Bolt Action? Check

Just described my varmint rifle to a T. Only difference between mine and Dakota County is mine is a Savage.
Author:  JimC [ Thu May 28, 2009 11:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Sniper rifles I saw and I'm talking about are made for the military, by specialty companies. They are not hunting rifles by any means

Not even sure if a civillian can buy one, But i'm checking





kecker wrote:
SultanOfBrunei wrote:
The difference between a 'sniper' rifle and a hunting rifle isn't much.


I'd be very amused watching someone try to define a "sniper" rifle without including a huge swath of hunting rifles.
Author:  Dee [ Fri May 29, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
They are not hunting rifles by any means


The basics are still the same as any modern hunting rifle; A barrel, a bolt action (usually), a trigger group and a stock.

Nowadays though there seems to be a trend towards semi-automatic rifles in the sniper role.

For example, here (middle rifle in photo) is a Knight Armaments XM110 (used by the US army). It is a semi automatic rifle.
Image
Knight has a civilian version that is quite similar.

The above replaced the M24 sniper rifle.

Quote:
the M24 is based on the Remington Arms 700 action and is very similar to the civilian 40X target rifle and the Marine Corp's M40 series rifle.

http://tech.military.com/equipment/view/89050/m24-sniper-rifle.html
Author:  DeanC [ Fri May 29, 2009 7:17 am ]
Post subject: 
I can't think of any sniper rifle that can't be obtained by a civilian. The only tricky thing is the ones with cans.

Did it look like this?

Image

or this?

Image
Author:  1911fan [ Fri May 29, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject: 
my only comment is very few of the real "sniper rifles" or tactical rifles I have shot have twwo ounce triggers. Very good two to three pound triggers , yes but not two ounce, that is really only for BR or some prairie doggin'


other than that there is no legislative barrier to owning a tactical style target rifle here in Minnesota
Author:  kecker [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
JimC wrote:
The Sniper rifles I saw and I'm talking about are made for the military, by specialty companies. They are not hunting rifles by any means


With all due respect, I call BS.

You're playing the same semantic game is when they try to ban "assault weapons" but can't define them.

Please give me one characteristic of a military "sniper rifle" that would not exist in a civilian hunting rifle.
Author:  CraigJS [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's being shot by one of the finest marksman (REAL world marksman) in the world!
That bolt action, isn't it an Accuracy International ?
They're bad ass..
A guy came into the old Sportsmans Warehouse (up by Anoka) and set one up on the counter, .338 Lapua I think, WOW!
Then he had to rub it in by saying he liked shooting it so much his wife OK'd him to get another. (this one was the same green as in your photo..)
WHERE was this woman when I got married?
Must have had VERY deep pockets.
Author:  Hunter07 [ Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
CraigJS wrote:
WHERE was this woman when I got married?

I've often wondered the same thing........... :?
Author:  DeanC [ Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:05 am ]
Post subject: 
kecker wrote:
Please give me one characteristic of a military "sniper rifle" that would not exist in a civilian hunting rifle.

I'll have to knock back a couple drinks while I think about that. Image
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