"The Chart" is infamous. I don't have a take on it, but I do know that the validity of 'the chart' is hottly debated.
Quote:
This is not the kind of stuff you can find on-line or in a magazine.
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| Which AR? http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=12989 |
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| Author: | DeanC [ Fri May 22, 2009 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Which AR? |
The answer is here. These guys compiled a really nice spreadsheet of all the features of the leading AR's on the market and they keep it up to date. They also have a nice explanation of each feature they document. This is not the kind of stuff you can find on-line or in a magazine. Really good info. I stumbled on this project in an article in Guns & Ammo Combat Tactics Special Issue Fall 2008. |
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| Author: | SultanOfBrunei [ Fri May 22, 2009 6:06 pm ] |
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"The Chart" is infamous. I don't have a take on it, but I do know that the validity of 'the chart' is hottly debated. Quote: This is not the kind of stuff you can find on-line or in a magazine.
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| Author: | Macx [ Fri May 22, 2009 7:00 pm ] |
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I don't think the facts are what is debated so much as the utility. Just how important is it to me, the civillian who will probably (understated) never use his AR in combat (how likely is a civil war? really?) for my AR to be parkerized under the front sightbase/gasblock? Does having an AR without a "grenade launcher notch" really give the guys on the M4 board grounds to talk down to me (they never have because I have never bragged up my Bushmaster/Remington & have no delusions they'd need to shatter) but too often the chart seems to be used for just that kind of thing "the chrome in my barrel is thicker than yours". Sure I'd like to own one of those Noveske/Magpul specials they made a bit ago and were selling for around $3K, but I am not a good enough shot to do that piece justice, nor would I ever really, in the real world need half the features. But most guys that read automobile magazines aren't really trying to choose between the new Vette, Porsche, or Ferrari . . .either. I like the chart, for what it is intended to be. YellowVisor did a great job collecting that data and laying it out that way. I do kinda wish it was expanded beyond just m4 and m4orgeies. |
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| Author: | DeanC [ Fri May 22, 2009 8:01 pm ] |
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Awfully self-contradictory of me, eh? No it wasn't. Yes it was. Are you looking for an argument? No you're not. Anyhow, my impression of THE CHART isn't so much to identify the superlative AR as to break down the parts and explain what is desirable by some people and not by others. EG: Chrome lined bores are more durable, but not as inherently accurate. |
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| Author: | chuckw [ Fri May 22, 2009 11:15 pm ] |
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I watched an ex-marine use an FN rifle with a chrome lined bore to consistently hit a steel silhouette at 1000 yards. After that I came to the conclusion that most of us worry about the accuracy impact of things that we don't have the skill to notice. |
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| Author: | weaselsmn [ Sat May 23, 2009 5:10 am ] |
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I love my DPMS A-3 Flattop style 20" fluted in .556 |
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| Author: | Q_Continuum [ Sat May 23, 2009 5:11 am ] |
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Macx wrote: ...I do kinda wish it was expanded beyond just m4 and m4orgeies. Perhaps that's a project/site to-be-done? Thought's crossed my mind. |
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| Author: | Q_Continuum [ Sat May 23, 2009 5:12 am ] |
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chuckw wrote: I... After that I came to the conclusion that most of us worry about the accuracy impact of things that we don't have the skill to notice. Yup, for most people, their gun is more accurate than they have the skill to take advantage of. (Example: If I bought a M1A tomorrow, which I'd LOVE to do...I'd be more worried about MY skill than the fact the M1A's capable out to x00 yards (depending on barrel length, etc) |
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| Author: | Jeremiah [ Tue May 26, 2009 7:10 am ] |
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Q_Continuum wrote: chuckw wrote: I... After that I came to the conclusion that most of us worry about the accuracy impact of things that we don't have the skill to notice. Yup, for most people, their gun is more accurate than they have the skill to take advantage of. (Example: If I bought a M1A tomorrow, which I'd LOVE to do...I'd be more worried about MY skill than the fact the M1A's capable out to x00 yards (depending on barrel length, etc) You and me both. In general, most modern firearms fall under the saying "the gun will do, if you will." (My apologies to whoever first said it, and feel free to correct me, gang. )
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| Author: | Sietch [ Tue May 26, 2009 11:25 am ] |
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It's still nice feeling assured that my AR stacks up against the very best, even if half the charted specs are totally beyond my knowing. |
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| Author: | gyrfalcon [ Tue May 26, 2009 12:30 pm ] |
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Rock River sure got shafted in that "comparison chart"... If you want the spectacular COLT go buy one. Let me know how quickly they work on any warranty service you might require. |
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| Author: | Carbide Insert [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:05 pm ] |
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weaselsmn wrote: I love my DPMS A-3 Flattop style 20" fluted in .556 
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| Author: | Sietch [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:53 pm ] |
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gyrfalcon wrote: Rock River sure got shafted in that "comparison chart"... If you want the spectacular COLT go buy one. Let me know how quickly they work on any warranty service you might require. I've got the 6920. And i've sent a sight in. They were pretty cool. I still think Springfield's the best in the business though. |
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| Author: | kecker [ Wed May 27, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
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Jeremiah wrote: Q_Continuum wrote: chuckw wrote: I... After that I came to the conclusion that most of us worry about the accuracy impact of things that we don't have the skill to notice. Yup, for most people, their gun is more accurate than they have the skill to take advantage of. (Example: If I bought a M1A tomorrow, which I'd LOVE to do...I'd be more worried about MY skill than the fact the M1A's capable out to x00 yards (depending on barrel length, etc) You and me both. In general, most modern firearms fall under the saying "the gun will do, if you will." (My apologies to whoever first said it, and feel free to correct me, gang. )Yeah, in the spring I shoot prairie dogs out in Nodak. Friend of mine was wanting to get into ballistic charts and mapping exact trajectories, wind calculations and all that. Basically show up out in the field with a stack of binders of information. That was all neat to think about until your realize that your skill level just isn't there to take advantage of most of that information yet. |
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| Author: | aczarnowski [ Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:02 pm ] |
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http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=81462 is a great rundown for fighting ARs. Based on that and some other research, I'd buy from CMMG if I was looking and they had anything to sell. Though not mentioned in the rundown, Anvil Arms also looks very good (I like 1/9 twist instead of 1/7 which seems standard these days). But seriously, any name you recognize will be fine to start with. If you're good enough to find the flaws, then you don't need advice on the best AR in the first place. |
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