When I have classes where a person is from one State and is carrying into a State that has reciprocity or honors your Permit, I suggest to the participants that you do not get stronger carrying rights then what exist in the State that issued the Permit. I have no legal basis for this, but I feel it is good advice.

For example, let's say that you live in State "A" but want to carry in State "B" using your State "A" permit. Your home State "A" does NOT allow carrying in a bar, but it is legal in State "B". So, you are in State B and are carrying in a bar. I maintain that this is a violation of your permit, and that if discovered by the issuing State "A" authorities that you potentially would lose the Permit.

Is there any legal basis for this? Or, am I all wet here.

Thoughts?

Not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV.

But my take would be that you have to obey the laws of whatever state you are in. Behavior that is legal here is legal for everyone here, not just residents. (assuming your civil rights havent been stripped by the courts or some other unusual circumstances).

Flip it around- if carrying in a bar is legal here, and you go to a state who honors your MN permit- you can't carry in a bar if that state doesn't all it- even though your MN permit lets you do so here.

That's my take.

I will mail you my hair dryer to dry out I tell my class when carrying in a state were we have reciprocity please check with that states laws about carrying. One state can not inforce they state law in another state. I'm not a lawyer but I think States Rights should apply here.

So lets say state "A" allow carring in bars and you go to state "B" and they don't allow it you can not carry in the bar. In short you must comply with all laws from the state that in are in.

I am not concerned with following the laws of the State you are in at the time, that is a given. My concern is that when you are issued a permit in State "A" you agree to be bound by the laws of that State or they would not issue the permit. It seems disingenuous to get more rights than they planned on giving you.

I am a lawyer (retired) and perhaps this is just paranoia. I still think that in general it is not unwise advice. In my hypothetical, if you carry into a bar on the legal basis that it is OK in the State you are visiting, that you will not get into any problem with that State. My concern is that the issuing State will possibly take offense at that. At this point the carry laws are not granted full faith and credit etc. from one State to another.

Although we do not have any reciprocity or honoring agreement with ND at this point, ...what if we did? The North Dakota law makers have concluded that bars are off limits. They issue the permit to their residents with that restriction. I just can't believe that they (i.e., ND lawmakers) would think it is a good plan for their permit holders to go to another State and violate that provision that would be illegal in their State.

Again, perhaps I am just overly paranoid. I suspect that I will continue to offer up my worries here to students until or unless a factual basis for believing otherwise exists. Heck, I think I will e-mail the ND AG office to see what they say.

Lets say I have a driver’s license from Minn. And we can only drive 55 MPH on the freeway in Minn. but I go to Wis. And they allow you to drive 75 MPH on their freeway.

Yes, I understand that (the speeding thing) but that is because we have full-faith-and credit with that regulation (as well as marriage licenses etc.).

At least to date, no court of final jurisdiction has said the same about permits to carry. (Now, whether they should is a different story!) I tend to agree that FAPP that this is a non-issue, but it is just a detail that I wanted to cross off my paranoid list of stuff to worry about

I look at my carry permit like my drivers license, at a high level.

MN allows a legally licensed driver with a North Dakota DL to drive here. But the ND driver has to obey MN traffic laws, not North Dakota's.
It may be illegal in North Dakota to drive in the left lane of a freeway unless passing, but that same driver could legally do that here.
They may be breaking ND law, but the person isn't in ND.

I look at my carry permit much the same way. The permit lets me carry, subject to whatever laws apply in the jurisdiction I am.
I'd certainly expect to have to comply with whatever carry rules apply in ND, even if they are more restrictive than MN's laws, and I'd expect the opposite to be true.

Is there even practical way to enforce something like this? I know you are asking from a theoretical standpoint, but on a practical level, it couldn't be enforced.

In your example, carry in a bar or not would have to be on the honor system.

But I'd never give a lawyer, or former lawyer, legal advice.

Cross off your list at your own discression.

It does open up a good discussion, though.

I have an Arizona permit as well as MN. The AZ permit is recognized in many states. In the AZ permit classes they always point out that when you carry in another state with the AZ permit, ALL the laws of that state apply and to be sure you understand those laws before carrying there. You do not invalidate your home permit when using it to carry in situations that your home state does not allow. They advise you to use Packing .Org to do your research.

The drivers license, speed limit example was a good one.

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Is there even practical way to enforce something like this? I know you are asking from a theoretical standpoint, but on a practical level, it couldn't be enforced. "
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For sure that is true. Evidently I have too much spare time today and am thinking about irrelevant minutia..I did send an e-mail to the ND BCI (as that is where the question really originated) and see what they say at least about ND permit holders. I suepct that my rampant worrie syndrome will be laughed at in the ND halls. Won't be the first time

Oh, like ND residents can even go there!
They should know better, what with all the ND jokes and all.

I can say this because most of my family is from the Bismark area, and the rest from Fargo. So I have teasing rights.

As much as I like to make fun of them, just to be a tease, I actually envy them in certain ways. They have a saner legislation, from what I've observed.

Since a the Minnesota permit law ONLY addresses carry in Minnesota, common sense would certainly suggest that its jurisdiction ends there.

Of course, what do common sense and the law have to do with each other?

I'd never call you all wet, Paul, but if you proposed this problem in person, I'd feel obliged to offer you a towel.

Make it extra absorbant Just to clarify, my concern/question is not about MN having jurisdiction outside of its borders, it is whether the issuing State might blanch and pull a revokation on its permit holder if it found out that he/she was carrying in a manner not approved by the issuing State. Again, policing it would be impractical, so it is more or less a question that is just "in theorey"...

I like my towels fluffy, soft and in a dark color. Thank you!

I don't think anyone has actual stats/specifics/case law on this subject.

The answer is "depends on other state's laws". In MN, sheriffs and police chiefs can petition to have someone's carry priviledge revoked. But, violating our laws doesn't seem to bring any extra penalties (like instant revokation or anything).

I was just using MN as the issuing state for the purpose of discussion.

Let's take a practical example:

In Arkansas, Arkansas permit holders can carry in public places in Arkansas, with dozens of exceptions, including churches.

If that Arkansas permit holder comes to Minnesota and carries in a church, he is not breaking Arkansas law, nor Minnesota law. There would be no basis for revocation or any other action.

I think, respectfully, that you are teaching the wrong thing.