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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:55 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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To evaluate this case, a lawyer has to know ALL the facts, (which I do not advocate posting on the internet until the case has been decided).
If the "battery" was a schoolyard scuffle, that's one thing. If it started out as a First Degree Domestic Assault, and was pled down because the victim was too terrified to testify, and the police reports indicate it was the ninth police call about a continuing situation, that's another. It's probably somewhere in between.
If the paraphernalia charge was made because the defendent was found passed out on the street and his buddies has swiped his stash, that might be different than if a spoon was found in the back seat of his car.
That's why you meet with a lawyer, to sort everything out. I'd recommend the lawyers we nomally recommend, because they have experience with these exact things.
I've never met Marc, but I'd bet Marc could give a pretty quick and accurate prediction if he is given the facts.
Last edited by Dick Unger on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:06 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Yup. More generally: permit appeals are specialized area of law, and kind of strange. They are, technically, a civil process (which is why the sheriff is held to "clear and convincing" rather than the state to "beyond a reasonable doubt"), but they're largely handled, in practice, by criminal lawyers (either crimlaw specialists, like Marc, or general practice folks with a lot of criminal experience, like David) as for the obvious reasons (and probably some others) the crimguys' experience is useful.
What's also strange, from this amateur's POV, is that standard rules of evidence appear to be thrown out the window, and that's not a good thing.
_________________ Just a guy.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:28 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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plblark wrote: It's awful easy for me to spend your money but something like ~60% of people denied in Ramsey County don't appeal and thus the RCSO is rewarded for their behavior by the people just going away.
Looking at last year's reports, of those who appeal, ~25% get it overturned. I have no idea how your specific case is going to come out and suspect Marc could give you much better advice in that regard.
Best of luck whatever you decide to do,
Paul Yup. I'd be very interested to know what the successful appeal percentage is of folks who don't play along with the RCSO games -- the folks who don't, say, provide a list of "character witnesses" or take further interviews, but just get a lawyer. My guess is that well over 60% are successful.
_________________ Just a guy.
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:55 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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Geesh, don't give "character witnesses", without hiring a lawyer.
That's just doing the Sheriff's investigation for him. An investigator's trick. Don't fall for that.
The Sheriff can just call these folks, who eagerly cooperate because they think they are doing a you favor, and he will then ask any question he wants, including the indentities of any other people who know you, that were not listed. Then he'll check his records on THEM, and probably call or visit them. He'll just get more dirt. (They really don't value your uncle's opinion that you"re actually turning out to be a good guy. Really.)
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akodo
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:36 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:41 pm Posts: 46
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also, isn't it the case that if you win the appeal, the denying officer must pay the lawyer's bill?
This means you can often make arrangements for a 30 minute 'initial consultation' for $100
if you have a soild case, make an offer of pay X if successful, pay Y if unsuccessfull.
with X being standard rate and Y being something much less. If you truely have a stong case, I'd expect a lawyer to agree, knowing that they stand a 99% chance of getting their standard fee from the sherrif
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:07 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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Nothing in law is "99%".
Most lawyers will probably want a retainer to cover costs and some amount of attorney fees. Clients may change their mind, die or move out of state, or become ineligable before the case is decided and fees are awarded. The amount of the fee recovery is sort of up to the "discretion" of the Judge. Some Judges are likely to cut the fee if they see fit. Some judges will make you have to appeal the simplist things.
With the cutbacks in Court financing, a case like this may take a long time to be heard. (Regardless of the "60 day" rule. They can always call the case and continue it or simply not put it on the calander.) It's my understanding that some the the rural judges are threatening to refuse to put minor traffic or bad check charges on the calander until they can get more staff.
The lawyer in the meantime has to pay his bills regardless of changes in circumstances or court delays.
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acemadison
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:21 pm |
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Trolling Doofus |
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Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 1:55 pm Posts: 20 Location: Saint Paul
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shouldnt have been massing with drugs in the first place
_________________ When in Doubt Empty the Magazine
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:25 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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acemadison wrote: shouldnt have been massing with drugs in the first place Sure. And since I'm sure you've never done anything you shouldn't have, you're in a different category. Right?
_________________ Just a guy.
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:29 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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Makes me think of his avatar ... I sure hope that's a remote camera there and no one is one day saying "Remember Rule 2!"
The Angela Aho incident Discussed in Joel's carry class. Tragic.
Quote: Angela Aho, 20, was shot by Brett Lessard, 25 in his apartment. Aho had asked Lessard to pose for a photograph for college class project. Aho stood a few feet away from Lessard to take the picture as he pointed a loaded gun at her. The gun went off, struck Angela Aho in the eye, killing her almost instantly. [...] Lessard was cleared of second-degree murder charges in May of 2003 but was convicted of second-degree manslaughter. In July he was sentenced to four years in prison and ordered to pay $12,500 in restitution.
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
Last edited by plblark on Wed May 20, 2009 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:33 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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The part that interested me in the original post wasn't the weed pipe possession, but the battery conviction for which the OP didn't provide further detail.
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johnnyg08
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:10 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:29 am Posts: 193 Location: MN
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we don't have "battery" in MN do we?
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gaygoalie
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:26 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm Posts: 372 Location: Lakeville
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plblark wrote: Makes me think of his avatar ... I sure hope that's a remote camera there and no one is one day saying "Remember Rule 2!" That was my immediate thought when joel mentioned Quote: And since I'm sure you've never done anything you shouldn't have, you're in a different category.
A new member already making waves.. I see lots of quality posts coming from this guy
_________________ Certified MN Carry Permit instructor check http://www.mncarrytraining.com/ for info
My Homebrew journal http://brew.goalie.cx
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Tabsr
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Post subject: Law and Justice Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:31 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 am Posts: 125
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In today world, the more money and political influence the better the justice. Leaned that growing up in Chicago.
_________________ "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." Winston Churchill
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mnmike59
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Post subject: Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:39 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:49 pm Posts: 105
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gaygoalie wrote: A new member already making waves.. I see lots of quality posts coming from this guy
Go easy, All I saw was an opinion.
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diskdoctr@yahoo.com
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Post subject: Battery Conviction??? Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:19 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 8:34 am Posts: 85 Location: Northwest Suburbs
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I would be very surprised if the Sherriff backs off when there is a battery conviction on the table... By all means give it a try but don't be surprised if the apeal is also denied...If you look at the list of things that make you ineligible you'll see where the Sherriff based his decision
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