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PocketProtector642
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Post subject: Self Defense Insurance Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:33 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am Posts: 702 Location: St. Paulish
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I have a good friend who is a MN state patrol. We were talking about PTC (by the way he is all for it). He asked me if I have or am going to get insurance. He said that he took out a personal million dollar policy incase something unwanted happens and is taken to court. He said it would help him keep his house. Have any of you thought about getting something like this? I'm not sure what type he has but google comes up with 'Self Defense Insurance' or 'CCW Insurance.' It looks like something the NRA offers. Thoughts?
_________________ Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters. "If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14) "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)
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lumbering.buffalo
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:05 pm |
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Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:08 pm Posts: 267
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I purchased a policy through the NRA. It costs me approx. $250 a year.
It covers $250K personal liability and $250K in self-defense coverage with a $50K criminal defense reimbursement.
I pray I never need to use it.
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Moby Clarke
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:19 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:09 pm Posts: 965 Location: North Minneapolis
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I have an unbrella 1 mil policy through Am Fam Insurance. Cost is less than $250/year. Covers atty costs as well.
_________________ It is about Liberty!
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Chris
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PocketProtector642
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:30 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am Posts: 702 Location: St. Paulish
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Moby Clarke wrote: I have an unbrella 1 mil policy through Am Fam Insurance. Cost is less than $250/year. Covers atty costs as well.
That sounds like the one my friend was talking about. I'm surprised my carry instructor didn't mention insurance. I would have never known. Would there be a reason (other than money) not to get it? Like maybe the prosecutor saying that you were preparing to take a life? (sorry, that sounds bad) But, then again, the same could be said about car insurance or fire insurance... so probably not.
_________________ Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters. "If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14) "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)
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QuietNewGuy
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:46 am |
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Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:05 pm Posts: 93 Location: Brooklyn Park
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Reasonable people don't buy car insurance so they can get into a fender-bender, they don't buy homeowner's insurance to burn their house down, and they don't buy life insurance so they can die. Sane/rational people buy this insurance hoping they never have to use it! There's nothing wrong with having an umbrella liability policy. It covers much more than just a self-defense situation.
Remember, insurance companies don't want to pay the claim if they don't have to. Ask the agent if a company lawyer would represent you if a civil liability case is brought against you after a car accident.
Not all companies offer umbrella policies. State Farm and AmFam are the only two I know of. I've heard from others that their companies don't.
Hope this didn't sound like a commercial. BTW, I don't work for either of these companies. IANAL either.
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:46 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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QuietNewGuy wrote: There's nothing wrong with having an umbrella liability policy. It covers much more than just a self-defense situation.
I'm not at all sure it will cover a self-defense situation. Talk to your agent. Shooting someone is a deliberate act and that may exclude it from the policy.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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Rem700
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:51 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:46 am Posts: 257 Location: Blaine, Mn
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princewally wrote: QuietNewGuy wrote: There's nothing wrong with having an umbrella liability policy. It covers much more than just a self-defense situation.
I'm not at all sure it will cover a self-defense situation. Talk to your agent. Shooting someone is a deliberate act and that may exclude it from the policy.
I have no first hand knowledge but have heard the same thing.
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DonT
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:13 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:55 pm Posts: 49 Location: WBL, MN
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A little professional advice that is worth exactly what you are paying for it...
If you think your Umbrella Policy is going to provide coverage for a self defense shooting I would advise you read your policy and if you still think it does then talk to your agent and if you still think it does talk to your defense attorney.
Most liability policies, unless specifically written to cover something like a self defense shooting, will exclude intentional acts. Shooting someone in self defense is an intentional act and using the "I didn't know it was loaded or it went off accidently" as a defense is probably going to get some punitive damages added to the award and these ain't covered either!!!
DonT
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PhoneBoy
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:04 pm |
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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:05 pm Posts: 33 Location: Lakeville
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Even if you had "Self Defense" or (Umbrella, Personal Liability, etc) insurance, you will find they do not cover any criminal acts… yes, even though you may have done nothing wrong, you will be defending yourself against accusation of a crime – therefore not covered by insurance.
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mnlitig8r
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:10 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:30 pm Posts: 180 Location: Twin Cities
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princewally wrote: I'm not at all sure it will cover a self-defense situation. Talk to your agent. Shooting someone is a deliberate act and that may exclude it from the policy.
Bingo!
_________________ "We, as criminal defense lawyers, are forced to deal with some of the lowest people on earth, people who have no sense of right and wrong, people who will lie in court to get what they want, people who do not care who gets hurt in the process. It is our job – our sworn duty as criminal defense lawyers – to protect our clients from those people." -- Cynthia Rosenberry, a DePaul University law professor, criminal defense attorney and founding member of the Georgia Innocence Project
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Moby Clarke
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:09 pm Posts: 965 Location: North Minneapolis
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I guess I will talk to my agent again, but the first time we specifically talked about a self-defense situation. My agent is a PTC holder as well. I will double check anyway.
_________________ It is about Liberty!
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Chris
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DonT
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:48 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:55 pm Posts: 49 Location: WBL, MN
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ask him to check with home office and if the answer is yes ask him to have the person he is talking too put it in writing. That will usually separate the chaff from the wheat!
DonT
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:17 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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Your homeowner's insurance will probably NOT cover the cost of defending you if you shoot someone, in Minnesota at least, no matter how justified you may be in doing so.
You will have some expense establishing that you were justified, that's a criminal defense=not covered.
Then the perp may sue you for money and his medical expense. That's INTENTIONAL conduct on your part, and not covered by your homeowner's insurance, which covers only your NEGLIGENT CONDUCT.
Intentional canduct=not covered.
Most insurance agents don't know this; at least I've never encountered an insurance agent that did. (Half of them give the wrong information, the others say you'd have to ask the company, and then the comapny won't give you a straight answer.)
But every insurance company defense attorney I've ever met does know this.
There is an odd exception. The Plaintiff's lawyer actually gets to decide if your insurance covers. He can allege that you carelessly shot his client because you were, well, careless with your gun. That way, if you're broke and have no money, he can get at your insurance policy.
Most Plaintiff's lawyers don't do that, because your insurance company will have a good lawyer and will fight the case and probably beat him. If he sues it as an intentional case, you'll probably be willing to offer him money to just go away, because it will be so expensive for you to pay for your own lawyer. Or, you will give up, and he can simply take a default judgement against you.
There are really very few of these cases, so 99% of insurance agents never encounter this situtation. I've never met a Minnesota insurance agent who could explain it.
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Rem700
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:52 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:46 am Posts: 257 Location: Blaine, Mn
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Ok so is the NRA insurance any better?
Others states have Self Defense type funds does Mn have similar and if not why not?
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Rem700
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Post subject: Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:15 am |
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:46 am Posts: 257 Location: Blaine, Mn
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Just as an idea.
If only 1% of the 55,000 permit holders opted in yearly to be eligible to use the fund.
55,000 X 1% = 550 X $20(yearly dues)= $11,000 not alot but it would be a start.
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