Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic

MostlyHarmless wrote:

I believe that the way we got on this was by noting that people who are OCing are at risk of being targeted for a disarm attempt because of the street value of the weapon itself and the plausible presumption by potential assailants that the presence of the OC weapon augers well for the presence of other valuables. A typical mugging produces under $100, much less than the street value of a carry weapon.

No, in general people don't get robbed in restrooms. People who are out looking for someone to rob prefer locations with more and better escape options. On the other hand crimes of opportunity do take place and if you're OCing, in a sense you've painted a bright red bullseye on your ass.

Best answer in my book is CC so as not to present such an opportunity.

MostlyHarmless wrote:

No, in general people don't get robbed in restrooms. People who are out looking for someone to rob prefer locations with more and better escape options. On the other hand crimes of opportunity do take place and if you're OCing, in a sense you've painted a bright red bullseye on your ass.

Best answer in my book is CC so as not to present such an opportunity.

mnglocker wrote:

I have a question for you: can you please cite a case of a non-LEO OCing that has had a gun grab? Also, what about the deterrent factor? Perps would much rather not be shot; they'll wait to take their chances with the unarmed populace instead.

kecker wrote:

Ahhhh, open carry vs conceal carry....our own personal version of a holy war.

JimC wrote:

Open Carry is a legal option. It's a personal choice.

Why do so many of you have a problem with it??? You all rant about personal rights etc, Leave those alone who choose to open carry. It's none of your business. You should support the right. Not critisize it.

JimC wrote:

Why do so many of you have a problem with it??? You all rant about personal rights etc, Leave those alone who choose to open carry. It's none of your business. You should support the right. Not critisize it.

Timothy Nelson wrote:

Wouldn't do it, but, just thinking aloud...

Wear the holster on your hip, leave that gun behind.

Have one, maybe, two in the pockets or elsewhere.

"Yo, that honky forgot his gun, let's get 'em!"

Element of surprise.

DeanC wrote:

Heh.

Talk about teeing one up....

drkarrow wrote:

Why oppose open carry?
1. Some people who carry still believe guns are bad, so they need to be hidden like a dirty secret (fear)
2. Some are afraid you will get the liberal government mad, and they will change the laws against all gun owners (politics)
3. Some people oppose anything that doesn't "fit it" with common practices and fear change. These people are usually quite obvious to spot in real life as they always insult or pick on anyone who is different from the norm. (bigots)
4. " Some one is gonna grab your gun!" (paranoid)
5. Some simply believe CC provides a better tactical advantage. (friendly advise)

I find most people here fall under the #5 tactical disadvantage camp. They are simply trying to help you to learn what they believe is a better option. I take it as nothing more than friendly advise. But when they start getting a little to preachy, then they tend to start to fall under some of the other categories.

Author:	Timothy Nelson [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:33 am ]
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Yeah, I have to agree. Bangers are Loco nowadays... one was so "hardcore" he prepaid on his funeral at 24 and his final wish was to "be standing like a "G" at his wake" - Died for "The Crew" I guess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO84sScbHwM

Author:	mrokern [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:34 am ]
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Mostly presents some good points. I'm pretty strongly in favor of OC. I don't do it when it's going to be shoving it in people's faces, I'm considerate...but I prefer OC when possible. That said, I think if you are going to carry openly, you need to give some thought to weapon retention. That means a holster that has at least some protection against a grab, an active awareness and ability to physically shield your firearm from a grab attempt, and a plan as to how to deal with a grab attempt (or worse yet, a successful grab). I never have just one method of defense at my disposal, and neither should anyone else if at all possible. Hand-to-hand training, a backup firearm, a fighting knife...your choice. Combine for best results. -Mark

Author:	kecker [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:18 am ]
Post subject:
MostlyHarmless wrote: I believe that the way we got on this was by noting that people who are OCing are at risk of being targeted for a disarm attempt because of the street value of the weapon itself and the plausible presumption by potential assailants that the presence of the OC weapon augers well for the presence of other valuables. A typical mugging produces under $100, much less than the street value of a carry weapon. No, in general people don't get robbed in restrooms. People who are out looking for someone to rob prefer locations with more and better escape options. On the other hand crimes of opportunity do take place and if you're OCing, in a sense you've painted a bright red bullseye on your ass. Best answer in my book is CC so as not to present such an opportunity. We need a "nodding vigorously" smilie.

Author:	mnglocker [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:
MostlyHarmless wrote: No, in general people don't get robbed in restrooms. People who are out looking for someone to rob prefer locations with more and better escape options. On the other hand crimes of opportunity do take place and if you're OCing, in a sense you've painted a bright red bullseye on your ass. Best answer in my book is CC so as not to present such an opportunity. Ask Pinnacle about muggings and restrooms over at the other site. Victims can literally be caught with their pants down. I have a question for you: can you please cite a case of a non-LEO OCing that has had a gun grab? Also, what about the deterrent factor? Perps would much rather not be shot; they'll wait to take their chances with the unarmed populace instead.

Author:	kecker [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Ahhhh, open carry vs conceal carry....our own personal version of a holy war.

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Author:	MostlyHarmless [ Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:18 pm ]
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mnglocker wrote: I have a question for you: can you please cite a case of a non-LEO OCing that has had a gun grab? Also, what about the deterrent factor? Perps would much rather not be shot; they'll wait to take their chances with the unarmed populace instead. No, I can't, for a couple of reasons. One, there's no uniform reporting of that type of thing. Two, non-LE, non-guard OCing in populated areas is rare enough that the sample size is too small to be useful. I've only ever seen anyone OCing without a badge once, ever, aside from hunters and people at the Gopher Bar. I don't think my experience is unusual.

Author:	boomingmetropolis [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:04 am ]
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kecker wrote: Ahhhh, open carry vs conceal carry....our own personal version of a holy war. Hmmm, now what would the Professor say...oh wait, he already did! "Rule #1: No one should know that you are carrying. No one." But what the hell does HE know,,,,he only wrote the statute...

Author:	JimC [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject:
Open Carry is a legal option. It's a personal choice. Why do so many of you have a problem with it??? You all rant about personal rights etc, Leave those alone who choose to open carry. It's none of your business. You should support the right. Not critisize it.

Author:	DeanC [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:47 am ]
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Heh. Talk about teeing one up....

Author:	Timothy Nelson [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:04 am ]
Post subject:
Wouldn't do it, but, just thinking aloud... Wear the holster on your hip, leave that gun behind. Have one, maybe, two in the pockets or elsewhere. "Yo, that honky forgot his gun, let's get 'em!" Element of surprise.

Author:	joelr [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject:
JimC wrote: Open Carry is a legal option. It's a personal choice. Why do so many of you have a problem with it??? You all rant about personal rights etc, Leave those alone who choose to open carry. It's none of your business. You should support the right. Not critisize it. Nah. There's lots of things that people have every right to do that others -- including me -- criticize as unwise. I'm not going to criticize open carry today, probably, but that's just because I'm tired of trying to repeat a nuanced position in different words, not because I think it's unreasonable to criticize somebody for doing something that they have every legal right to do.

Author:	drkarrow [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:36 am ]
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JimC wrote: Why do so many of you have a problem with it??? You all rant about personal rights etc, Leave those alone who choose to open carry. It's none of your business. You should support the right. Not critisize it. It is a shame that any thread that mentions OC has to turn into a OC vs CC debate. We don't go into every CC thread and bash CCrs for not OCing, but for some reason they feel that they must. Why oppose open carry? 1. Some people who carry still believe guns are bad, so they need to be hidden like a dirty secret (fear) 2. Some are afraid you will get the liberal government mad, and they will change the laws against all gun owners (politics) 3. Some people oppose anything that doesn't "fit it" with common practices and fear change. These people are usually quite obvious to spot in real life as they always insult or pick on anyone who is different from the norm. (bigots) 4. " Some one is gonna grab your gun!" (paranoid) 5. Some simply believe CC provides a better tactical advantage. (friendly advise) I find most people here fall under the #5 tactical disadvantage camp. They are simply trying to help you to learn what they believe is a better option. I take it as nothing more than friendly advise. But when they start getting a little to preachy, then they tend to start to fall under some of the other categories.

Author:	Greg [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:39 am ]
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Timothy Nelson wrote: Wouldn't do it, but, just thinking aloud... Wear the holster on your hip, leave that gun behind. Have one, maybe, two in the pockets or elsewhere. "Yo, that honky forgot his gun, let's get 'em!" Element of surprise. I'd have to call that trolling...and not being entirely a "reluctant participant"!

Author:	Jeremiah [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:01 am ]
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DeanC wrote: Heh. Talk about teeing one up.... Uh-huh. Too damn easy, in my opinion...

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Author:	kecker [ Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:21 am ]
Post subject:
drkarrow wrote: Why oppose open carry? 1. Some people who carry still believe guns are bad, so they need to be hidden like a dirty secret (fear) 2. Some are afraid you will get the liberal government mad, and they will change the laws against all gun owners (politics) 3. Some people oppose anything that doesn't "fit it" with common practices and fear change. These people are usually quite obvious to spot in real life as they always insult or pick on anyone who is different from the norm. (bigots) 4. " Some one is gonna grab your gun!" (paranoid) 5. Some simply believe CC provides a better tactical advantage. (friendly advise) I find most people here fall under the #5 tactical disadvantage camp. They are simply trying to help you to learn what they believe is a better option. I take it as nothing more than friendly advise. But when they start getting a little to preachy, then they tend to start to fall under some of the other categories. I don't think I've seen anything on these boards regarding OC that should NOT be taken as friendly advise. I think we all recognize it's legal. We all recognize it as a personal choice. And even if we disagree I think we'd all defend your right to choose to do it. At the same time every time we even come close to straying to this issue, the OCers cry out that they are being ridiculed and belittled. That makes me a little more curious than the fact that you chose to OC. My friendly advise, accept that we have a difference of opinion and people are going to share their rationale (correct or otherwise) for not making the same choice you did.