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Parking Lot Rage...
http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10942		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  princewally [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
That's a big, huge step. I have a family to take care of, so I'm disinclined to take big risks for strangers.


Exactly. If my family is with me, all bets are off. I will NOT be getting directly involved. If they're not with me, it's not as clear-cut, but I still need to come home to my family.
Author:  Lenny7 [ Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
I have a family to take care of, so I'm disinclined to take big risks for strangers.


Exactly. I have a wife and 3 kids. I'm not worried for myself so much as I'm am for my kids' father.
Author:  RobD [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parking Lot Rage...
ronin069 wrote:
Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.


This disturbs me a bit... IMHO You are treading dangerously close to threatening him with your gun. You are not a police officer, and do not have the right to "hold" anyone (especially using your defensive gun, which your statement implies you would be doing)

As I understand, your firearm can only be used to protect yourself and/or a loved one from imminent death or severe injury.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parking Lot Rage...
Incakola wrote:
You are not a police officer, and do not have the right to "hold" anyone (especially using your defensive gun, which your statement implies you would be doing)

As I understand, your firearm can only be used to protect yourself and/or a loved one from imminent death or severe injury.


No, you can legally arrest someone for committing a crime in your presence. You can also legally use deadly force to prevent death or GBH of a stranger.

Whether it's a good idea to risk all of that is an entirely separate question.
Author:  joelr [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Parking Lot Rage...
Incakola wrote:
ronin069 wrote:
Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.


This disturbs me a bit... IMHO You are treading dangerously close to threatening him with your gun. You are not a police officer, and do not have the right to "hold" anyone (especially using your defensive gun, which your statement implies you would be doing)

As I understand, your firearm can only be used to protect yourself and/or a loved one from imminent death or severe injury.
Who knows? There's no statute that says that, nor any case law, but it could turn out that way.

As to holding somebody at gunpoint, I'm not sure that there's anybody who thinks it's generally a worse idea than I do, but, again, there's no statute or case law that I'm aware of that says a lawful citizens arrest can't involve pointing a gun at somebody.

(If I sound like I'm trying to encourage doing either thing, my apologies; I'm not.)
Author:  westhope [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Incakola wrote:

Quote:
As I understand, your firearm can only be used to protect yourself and/or a loved one from imminent death or severe injury.


There is no distinction in the law concerning the use of deadly force about who is in fear of "Greal Bodily Harm". Loved one or not.

When you choose to become involved by using force, you open yourself to a lot of risk. Criminal and civil. Many say they will only do that for a "loved one". For strangers, they will call the police and be a good witness.

You personally will have to live with the decision of becoming involved, but know the risks that you expose yourself too.
Author:  Macx [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I thought I had that covered on the first page -
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.

Absolutely not. You have no desire to hold him for the police, that'd probably involve drawing and what then, if he decided to walk off? Do you fire a warning shot? Shoot him in the leg? Things can only escalate to really expensive. What if Jerk #2 is a Landon Beard style cop? It isn't like there is only one Landon Beard running around the Twin Cities.
Author:  J. R. [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Years ago in a distant galaxy a lady friend and her " A hole" male friend would stage fights in public. Say perhaps a bar, perhaps a very big bar with live music. Sometimes the "fight" would be up on an elevated area near the dance floor where many people could see them. The fights never got physical but there was much yelling, arm waving, posturing and geturing usually followed by the male yelling "F you" while making a hasty exit to the far side of the bar.

The real entertainment was watching all the roosters flock in to comfort the hen. After the poor damsel had been "saved" by the two or three marks, the A hole boy friend returns, all is forgiven and the happy couple goes back to enjoying their evening and the entertainment on the main stage...

The marks confused and uncertain would slowly return to their barstools.
Author:  ree [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
And to muddy the waters further, we do have a Good Samaritan Law. And it has been discussed at length here, albeit in an entirely speculative manner.

As others have said already on this thread, this could broaden that which you are allowed/required to do according to an objective reading of the statutes. But it still doesn't make it more wise to involve yourself.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
ree wrote:
And to muddy the waters further, we do have a Good Samaritan Law. And it has been discussed at length here, albeit in an entirely speculative manner.

As others have said already on this thread, this could broaden that which you are allowed/required to do according to an objective reading of the statutes.


That law makes it a petty misdemeanor (that is, a offense, not a crime) to fail to render aid, and specifically lists "...obtaining or attempting to obtain aid from law enforcement or medical personnel."

In other words, calling 911, or even running to find a phone, fulfills the requirement to render aid.
Author:  DeanC [ Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Backing way up to the beginning, if the restaurant you are planning to dine at has no more parking spaces available, shouldn't you consider that the level of service you are about to pay for is probably inversely geometrically proportional to the number of available parking spots?

That's always been my experience at least.
Author:  JoeH [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:25 am ]
Post subject: 
DeanC wrote:
Backing way up to the beginning, if the restaurant you are planning to dine at has no more parking spaces available, shouldn't you consider that the level of service you are about to pay for is probably inversely geometrically proportional to the number of available parking spots?

That's always been my experience at least.


At times the converse is true. Busy restaurants are busy for a reason. When pulling into a small town with two restaurants and one is really busy and the other is bare, wait for a seat at the busy place.
Author:  johnnyg08 [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
The law is called the Personal Protection Act. From what I've read in the MPPA, there's a very narrow scope for you to publically use your weapon to aid another person not in your immdiate circle...In the exact situation you describe, I think you'd be putting yourself in more trouble than you'd think...our world doesn't look very favorably on vigalante justice...if you see an issue...which in this case, wasn't any more than words...call 911 and let the cops handle it.

"Not your problem" +200

I didn't read all 4 pages of posts...but on this board, I think everybody agrees with less is best...
Author:  johnnyg08 [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
tommygun wrote:
placed in legal jeopardy for getting involved.


my understanding is that as a private citizen, even some LE, are not legally obligated to protect anybody...there is case law that protects LE...is that right? IANAL
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
johnnyg08 wrote:
The law is called the Personal Protection Act. From what I've read in the MPPA, there's a very narrow scope for you to publically use your weapon to aid another person not in your immdiate circle...


Actually, the law simply says "...the actor or another...." You may have read something that wasn't there. :)

Quote:
I didn't read all 4 pages of posts...but on this board, I think everybody agrees with less is best...


Is it so much to ask that you read the conversation before joining it? :roll:
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