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Abnormal Target Practice
http://forum.twincitiescarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10503		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  someone1980 [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:06 pm ]
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A small technical detail. It looks like Tannerite is a low explosive, the same class as propellant (i.e. gun powder).

One of the differences between a high and low explosive is the expansion rate related to the speed of sound. The low explosive will burn (deflagration), with the flame front burning through the material at less then the speed of sound.

Now for the pay off. In Hatcher's Notebook he talks about he took some powder kegs out (in the 3-10lbs range, I don't remember exactly how large) and shot them to see if this might be a problem for storage. What he found is that if you hit the bottom third of the keg it would explode. So there you go, some of your very own exploding targets. Granted I think Tannerite might be cheaper then lighting off 8lbs of powder all at the same time. :)
Author:  macphisto [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:33 pm ]
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With all due respect, I think you're wrong. Tannerite detonates at an extremely high velocity.

Read this: http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html
Author:  bensdad [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
someone1980 wrote:
A small technical detail. It looks like Tannerite is a low explosive, the same class as propellant (i.e. gun powder).

One of the differences between a high and low explosive is the expansion rate related to the speed of sound. The low explosive will burn (deflagration), with the flame front burning through the material at less then the speed of sound.

Now for the pay off. In Hatcher's Notebook he talks about he took some powder kegs out (in the 3-10lbs range, I don't remember exactly how large) and shot them to see if this might be a problem for storage. What he found is that if you hit the bottom third of the keg it would explode. So there you go, some of your very own exploding targets. Granted I think Tannerite might be cheaper then lighting off 8lbs of powder all at the same time. :)


I thought it had more to do with brisance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosives
Maybe its the same thing. I don't really get it.

My favorite stuff to shoot is the stuff that moves a lot, but doesn't blow up. Golfballs, plastic jugs, etc. They get further and further away.
Author:  Sixstring [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still have a couple of Tannerite containers left from my last purchase. I think I'm going to save them for snowmen in the winter. :D
Author:  someone1980 [ Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
macphisto wrote:
With all due respect, I think you're wrong. Tannerite detonates at an extremely high velocity.

Read this: http://www.tannerite.com/she_exploding_targets.html


Now you have done it. You got me curious. ;)

Long story short: I can't tell for sure which it is, but I am learning a lot, and asking people questions. BTW if you see me on the evening news, let them know that I don't want to break anything. :)

Lets start with the qualitative.

The Chemical Engineers analysis is pretty weak. He is assuming that the response of plastic under high pressure is the same as metal, including at what pressure the plastic starts to fracture. He might have more evidence to support his case, but the way he presented it he is a Bad monkey.

Lets look at some explosions (because we can all appreciate a big boom) and we might learn something. Finding videos of Tannerite was easy. They ranged from 0.5 lb up to the video of the 100lbs that the dummy lit off. TNT in that weight range was harder to find.

1/2 lb tannerite
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4LeMrngzAaw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4LeMrngzAaw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Tannerite. Also looks like a half pound.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sQTqSp42Gu4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sQTqSp42Gu4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Looks like 1/2 lbs Tannerite
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uHJa4yxcOLU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uHJa4yxcOLU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

1kg of TNT (~2.2lbs)
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PeMAhtCBl1k&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PeMAhtCBl1k&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

1.5lbs of TNT
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/viONWlYLpwo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/viONWlYLpwo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Keeping in mind there is 3-4x more TNT then Tannerite. It seems that the TNT has a sharper pressure wave, but is it more then 3-4x? The videos were fun to watch anyways.

I did some digging in the book "Introduction to the Technology of Explosives" and the main components of Tannerite are used in both blasting and propellants.

One of the components used is "a poor explosive by itself... but good when mixed with other explosives". This can be seen in an ANFO bomb like what was lit off at Oklahoma City. There the mix included nitromethene which for sure is a high explosive. So Tannerite could be high explosive.

The other components are an initiator and an oxidizer that is used in rocket motors (burns doesn't explode). This would seem to indicate that it is a low explosive.

When it is all said and don't I don't know enough chemistry to make a call one way or the other with the information I have.
Author:  mostlylawabidingcitizen [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
macphisto wrote:
I'm thinking about ordering some Tannerite soon. Maybe we can do a group buy on it.

Just don't get too carried away with it like this numbskull: http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... yid=492819

Surprisingly, his hot-shit lawyer got the charges dropped and he walked. I looked him up and he has three convictions in the last eleven years including a felony from 1997 involving drunk driving and great bodily harm. Brian Wesley Childs is a menace to society and should be in prison.

100lbs. of high-explosive in a dump truck = irresponsible and idiotic behavior (which seems to be the trend with this moron).


He had 500 lbs of Tannerite in the dump truck body and touched it off with a 50 cal bmg if I remember correctly.

Mostly-
Author:  macphisto [ Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
You don't remember correctly; it was 100lbs. Five-hundred would have blown that dump truck into the next county.
Author:  EJSG19 [ Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here, the all knowing and never wrong Wikipedia verifies the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tannerite

Maybe using tannerite to move the truck was cheaper than the diesel fuel.

No, the guy was/is an idiot, no question. Took something fun and put it on the national radar. Way to go a$$hat.
Author:  ironbear [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
someone1980 wrote:
When it is all said and don't I don't know enough chemistry to make a call one way or the other with the information I have.
I asked a chemist friend of mine about Tannerite. He checked it out in one of his references. It is classified as a low explosive and a relatively inefficient one at that, due to the lack of sufficient quantities of oxygen in the reaction. Apparently it is about equivalent to early dynamite.
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